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[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 04:39:42 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 04:39:59 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 04:42:53 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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Permissions fixed.

Linux pleases, and Linux pisses off.

 



[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 12:57:16 MST from Otto Roboto

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Sun Dec 27 2020 03:51:18 AM MST from ParanoidDelusions

Well, look at that - proof you existed, even in 1985!

Wed Dec 31 1969 17:00:00 MST from
 


85Aug31 from Otto Roboto
I think Omni is down so much because Gary is working on it (and can't fix it.)



Hmmm, I really did exist.  And look, I seem to be in the know about Omni and what Gary is working on.  And I am not Charles, as you have already tried guessing that.



[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 19:55:26 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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So... outside of Gary, Charles and Brent - I can't remember anyone else being directly involved in the development of the major forks of Citadel in Sacramento. 

I know there were some people working on non-standard forks - like um... Bill - the Atari ST guy who worked on ST Keep and ran CWK. I remember Andy - but I can't remember his name - or the BBS he ran or what fork of Citadel it was. I remember he was super cool. I can't remember either one of them using the handle Otto Roboto. 

I'm a little exasperated that I am that hazy about any aspect of that time - because it should be one of the most clear headed periods in my life - I was absolutely clean until the very end of it, and even then, I was barely experimenting with some drinking. I know my early 20s were a foggy haze of drunken frat and house parties that never stopped - in some ways exceeding the excess of my early teens - although the alcohol was far less destructive than the drugs. 

I think by the end, probably around 1989 - Dave Ghoulsby and I would buy a pitcher or two of beer at the MUPTs even though we were both underage, and the adults didn't care for that much - but it was still pretty lightweight stuff. The night I met my wife I was at a house party, it was about 9 PM, and I had already finished off a 5th of Stolis. I came walking out of the house going, "If someone will drive me to Safeway, I'll buy them anything they want from the liquor aisle. (A stupidly open-ended offer - but none of us thought higher than a bottle of Stolis at the time.) My wife and her friend took me up on the offer, and I got off easy with a bottle of Cook's champagne - and the rest is history. :) 


Sun Dec 27 2020 12:57:16 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Sun Dec 27 2020 03:51:18 AM MST from ParanoidDelusions

Well, look at that - proof you existed, even in 1985!

Wed Dec 31 1969 17:00:00 MST from
 


85Aug31 from Otto Roboto
I think Omni is down so much because Gary is working on it (and can't fix it.)



Hmmm, I really did exist.  And look, I seem to be in the know about Omni and what Gary is working on.  And I am not Charles, as you have already tried guessing that.



 



[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 20:09:32 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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Then there is this. I think I was not yet causing havoc on Citadel when the earliest of these messages were captured. BG was just occasionally logging in when I first started at Citadel - Louis Zeppa may have been history - didn't he die? I think by the time I became established he was already being spoken of in the past tense. Larry Reznick was around - but I feel like he had become less involved with the community in general by the time I was established. 

So, I wonder if maybe you were part of the first vanguard of Citadel, the guys who were already disillusioned with it on a certain level by the time guys like Al Hollinger, Patrick Carlson, Cy, Huey and I showed up and kind of took it to a new level of the basement. 

Brenda, Gerhard, Pagan, Jan Yarnot... Gary, Charles, Brent... Earl, Paul, Nexus (Dave. G,) there was a 3rd wave, and some of the long time players were part of it - but a lot of the 1st wave players had kind of changed to more observers and behind the scenes guys - Maybe having conversations in private rooms? 




[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 20:12:00 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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" (don't do it, Gary. You want Otto back?) and that's the

scoreboard so far."

How would deleting Pagan's account cause Otto to come back?!? :) The clues are so misleading.
 


[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 14:49:52 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 19:11:39 MST from Otto Roboto

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Sun Dec 27 2020 08:09:32 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

Then there is this. I think I was not yet causing havoc on Citadel when the earliest of these messages were captured. BG was just occasionally logging in when I first started at Citadel - Louis Zeppa may have been history - didn't he die? I think by the time I became established he was already being spoken of in the past tense. Larry Reznick was around - but I feel like he had become less involved with the community in general by the time I was established. 

So, I wonder if maybe you were part of the first vanguard of Citadel, the guys who were already disillusioned with it on a certain level by the time guys like Al Hollinger, Patrick Carlson, Cy, Huey and I showed up and kind of took it to a new level of the basement. 

Brenda, Gerhard, Pagan, Jan Yarnot... Gary, Charles, Brent... Earl, Paul, Nexus (Dave. G,) there was a 3rd wave, and some of the long time players were part of it - but a lot of the 1st wave players had kind of changed to more observers and behind the scenes guys - Maybe having conversations in private rooms? 




I was there at the start of Dragon's den and stuck around until 1996 or so.  I started my system in 1984 or 1985, I don't quite remember, but after my main hard drive died in 1995, I did not bring it back up.  But by then, BBSs were starting to drop off.  And since my system was a part of the east/west Citadel backbone, the Citadels network started losing even more steam.

 

I still have my computer system with all the components that ran the BBS, still sitting in the same spot.  I think the bearings went out on the drive.  After I retire from work in a few months, I should try and see if I can "clean room" recover that drive and see if I can get anything from it.  If it was not a bearing, then it was a head crash and it is beyond dead.  ;)



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 19:22:52 MST from Otto Roboto

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There were not many people that knew the real identity of Otto.  A couple of Sysops learned it when it was "verification required" configuration setups.  In hindsight, that was a terrible feature from the users perspective, but was a God send from the Sysop's view.

And I agree with your assessment for Gary, Charles and Brent by the time you came on scene,  but keep in mind that Brent was also not there at the beginning.  Brent got involved when Charles and Gary forked it into SacCit and created the Sacramento Sysop coalition of developers, including Jim Earl.  Brent created his basic version on the Atari around that time, if I remember correctly.  Then when Gary and Charles split from SacCit and turned of the primary coding to Jim Earl, they formed the Asgard group and Brent went with them.  A short time later, Brent took the Asgard code and formed his Novucitis (New Cit).  

Sun Dec 27 2020 07:55:26 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

So... outside of Gary, Charles and Brent - I can't remember anyone else being directly involved in the development of the major forks of Citadel in Sacramento. 

I know there were some people working on non-standard forks - like um... Bill - the Atari ST guy who worked on ST Keep and ran CWK. I remember Andy - but I can't remember his name - or the BBS he ran or what fork of Citadel it was. I remember he was super cool. I can't remember either one of them using the handle Otto Roboto. 

I'm a little exasperated that I am that hazy about any aspect of that time - because it should be one of the most clear headed periods in my life - I was absolutely clean until the very end of it, and even then, I was barely experimenting with some drinking. I know my early 20s were a foggy haze of drunken frat and house parties that never stopped - in some ways exceeding the excess of my early teens - although the alcohol was far less destructive than the drugs. 

I think by the end, probably around 1989 - Dave Ghoulsby and I would buy a pitcher or two of beer at the MUPTs even though we were both underage, and the adults didn't care for that much - but it was still pretty lightweight stuff. The night I met my wife I was at a house party, it was about 9 PM, and I had already finished off a 5th of Stolis. I came walking out of the house going, "If someone will drive me to Safeway, I'll buy them anything they want from the liquor aisle. (A stupidly open-ended offer - but none of us thought higher than a bottle of Stolis at the time.) My wife and her friend took me up on the offer, and I got off easy with a bottle of Cook's champagne - and the rest is history. :) 


Sun Dec 27 2020 12:57:16 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Sun Dec 27 2020 03:51:18 AM MST from ParanoidDelusions

Well, look at that - proof you existed, even in 1985!

Wed Dec 31 1969 17:00:00 MST from
 


85Aug31 from Otto Roboto
I think Omni is down so much because Gary is working on it (and can't fix it.)



Hmmm, I really did exist.  And look, I seem to be in the know about Omni and what Gary is working on.  And I am not Charles, as you have already tried guessing that.



 



 



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 19:57:39 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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I might have parts around here that could help you out. I believe there is a 5.25" MFM HDD floating around here somewhere in my pile o' stuff. 

You're certainly part of the vanguard. By the end the only Cits I can think of were... 

Omni, Hotel (but I don't think it was up), CyWorld, The Sanitarium, Rubber Crutch, Dragons Den, Penthouse Suite, Cold Winter Knights, Earl's Castle. Did Vince have his own BBS or did he run DDBBS-II. I can't remember what Brent's BBS was called. I feel like Al Hollinger had a BBS. He went by Harvester of Sorrow. Then that dude Pat... who I think was Patrick Carlson, and I feel like now goes by Carson Duper - ran a Citadel too. He was Damage Inc. 

This is interesting, being that I ended up living in Massillon, 44646 for a while: 

Mon Dec 28 2020 19:11:39 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Sun Dec 27 2020 08:09:32 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

Then there is this. I think I was not yet causing havoc on Citadel when the earliest of these messages were captured. BG was just occasionally logging in when I first started at Citadel - Louis Zeppa may have been history - didn't he die? I think by the time I became established he was already being spoken of in the past tense. Larry Reznick was around - but I feel like he had become less involved with the community in general by the time I was established. 

So, I wonder if maybe you were part of the first vanguard of Citadel, the guys who were already disillusioned with it on a certain level by the time guys like Al Hollinger, Patrick Carlson, Cy, Huey and I showed up and kind of took it to a new level of the basement. 

Brenda, Gerhard, Pagan, Jan Yarnot... Gary, Charles, Brent... Earl, Paul, Nexus (Dave. G,) there was a 3rd wave, and some of the long time players were part of it - but a lot of the 1st wave players had kind of changed to more observers and behind the scenes guys - Maybe having conversations in private rooms? 




I was there at the start of Dragon's den and stuck around until 1996 or so.  I started my system in 1984 or 1985, I don't quite remember, but after my main hard drive died in 1995, I did not bring it back up.  But by then, BBSs were starting to drop off.  And since my system was a part of the east/west Citadel backbone, the Citadels network started losing even more steam.

 

I still have my computer system with all the components that ran the BBS, still sitting in the same spot.  I think the bearings went out on the drive.  After I retire from work in a few months, I should try and see if I can "clean room" recover that drive and see if I can get anything from it.  If it was not a bearing, then it was a head crash and it is beyond dead.  ;)



 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 11:38:44 MST from Otto Roboto

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Oh, I have plenty of 5.25 drives, including the one that was on the BBS computer.  The hard part is going to be getting anything of the hard drive at all.  You are correct that Hotel was not up at the end, I think it was due to hardware failure.  Vince ran DDBBS-II on TRS-80 Model II hardware after he transposed it from Jerry's Heath hardware.  I also do not remember what Brent's BBS was called, it might have been Novucitivis or something similar.

 

So, do you have it nailed down as to who I am yet?  There should be plenty of clues given in the last dozen messages...

Mon Dec 28 2020 07:57:39 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

I might have parts around here that could help you out. I believe there is a 5.25" MFM HDD floating around here somewhere in my pile o' stuff. 

You're certainly part of the vanguard. By the end the only Cits I can think of were... 

Omni, Hotel (but I don't think it was up), CyWorld, The Sanitarium, Rubber Crutch, Dragons Den, Penthouse Suite, Cold Winter Knights, Earl's Castle. Did Vince have his own BBS or did he run DDBBS-II. I can't remember what Brent's BBS was called. I feel like Al Hollinger had a BBS. He went by Harvester of Sorrow. Then that dude Pat... who I think was Patrick Carlson, and I feel like now goes by Carson Duper - ran a Citadel too. He was Damage Inc. 

This is interesting, being that I ended up living in Massillon, 44646 for a while: 

Mon Dec 28 2020 19:11:39 MST from Otto Roboto

 

Sun Dec 27 2020 08:09:32 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

Then there is this. I think I was not yet causing havoc on Citadel when the earliest of these messages were captured. BG was just occasionally logging in when I first started at Citadel - Louis Zeppa may have been history - didn't he die? I think by the time I became established he was already being spoken of in the past tense. Larry Reznick was around - but I feel like he had become less involved with the community in general by the time I was established. 

So, I wonder if maybe you were part of the first vanguard of Citadel, the guys who were already disillusioned with it on a certain level by the time guys like Al Hollinger, Patrick Carlson, Cy, Huey and I showed up and kind of took it to a new level of the basement. 

Brenda, Gerhard, Pagan, Jan Yarnot... Gary, Charles, Brent... Earl, Paul, Nexus (Dave. G,) there was a 3rd wave, and some of the long time players were part of it - but a lot of the 1st wave players had kind of changed to more observers and behind the scenes guys - Maybe having conversations in private rooms? 




I was there at the start of Dragon's den and stuck around until 1996 or so.  I started my system in 1984 or 1985, I don't quite remember, but after my main hard drive died in 1995, I did not bring it back up.  But by then, BBSs were starting to drop off.  And since my system was a part of the east/west Citadel backbone, the Citadels network started losing even more steam.

 

I still have my computer system with all the components that ran the BBS, still sitting in the same spot.  I think the bearings went out on the drive.  After I retire from work in a few months, I should try and see if I can "clean room" recover that drive and see if I can get anything from it.  If it was not a bearing, then it was a head crash and it is beyond dead.  ;)



 



 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 16:34:28 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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I actually feel further away from the answer now than at the start. I can't think of any other regulars I haven't named off already. Bill Belon, Larry Reznick, the others are dead. You can't be Gerhard - or I only knew them by online pseudonyms. Also, there aren't any left. 

It is interesting seeing you in those documents. 

Interesting thing about those docs. They have a create date of 2010. That must have been when I grabbed them. And they're not Yoyodyne archives - they're DDBBS archives. 

I did a search for that, thinking there might be more out there and it might give me clues - but wherever I grabbed them appears to be long gone. 

 

Tue Dec 29 2020 11:38:44 MST from Otto Roboto

Oh, I have plenty of 5.25 drives, including the one that was on the BBS computer.  The hard part is going to be getting anything of the hard drive at all.  You are correct that Hotel was not up at the end, I think it was due to hardware failure.  Vince ran DDBBS-II on TRS-80 Model II hardware after he transposed it from Jerry's Heath hardware.  I also do not remember what Brent's BBS was called, it might have been Novucitivis or something similar.

 

So, do you have it nailed down as to who I am yet?  There should be plenty of clues given in the last dozen messages...

 


[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 21:33:23 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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NEW UPLOAD: 'TheLostWritingsOfPaganFlames.docx'
In Search Of The Lost Writings of Pagan Flames Pt1 application/zip

[#] Wed Dec 30 2020 17:28:36 MST from Otto Roboto

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Larry Reznick is dead?  I must have missed that.  When did that happen?

Okay, you have used my real name, but only in talking about other things.  Unless I missed a specific message where you directly named me.  And if that happened, then I am sorry I missed it and have mislead you.  Now I need to figure out h9w to go back and read all the messages to see if you did guess directly and I overlooked it.

 

Tue Dec 29 2020 04:34:28 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

I actually feel further away from the answer now than at the start. I can't think of any other regulars I haven't named off already. Bill Belon, Larry Reznick, the others are dead. You can't be Gerhard - or I only knew them by online pseudonyms. Also, there aren't any left. 

It is interesting seeing you in those documents. 

Interesting thing about those docs. They have a create date of 2010. That must have been when I grabbed them. And they're not Yoyodyne archives - they're DDBBS archives. 

I did a search for that, thinking there might be more out there and it might give me clues - but wherever I grabbed them appears to be long gone. 

 

Tue Dec 29 2020 11:38:44 MST from Otto Roboto

Oh, I have plenty of 5.25 drives, including the one that was on the BBS computer.  The hard part is going to be getting anything of the hard drive at all.  You are correct that Hotel was not up at the end, I think it was due to hardware failure.  Vince ran DDBBS-II on TRS-80 Model II hardware after he transposed it from Jerry's Heath hardware.  I also do not remember what Brent's BBS was called, it might have been Novucitivis or something similar.

 

So, do you have it nailed down as to who I am yet?  There should be plenty of clues given in the last dozen messages...

 


 



[#] Wed Dec 30 2020 18:14:59 MST from Otto Roboto

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Okay, just went back and read thru all the messages in the 3 or 4 rooms that this conversation is spread thru, and although you have used my real name in passing, you have not directly assigned it to me.

In fact, you outright dismissed it as not a viable option at one point.  And these are a few of the clues that you have missed.  So, although you think you have guess all the people who used real names, you may have mentioned them, but not "guessed" them.  

 

lol...

 

Sorry if I am being to strict on the "Guessing" part...  hehehe



[#] Wed Dec 30 2020 18:45:08 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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Are you LARRY REZNICK?!?

He isn't dead - that was just bad composition on my part. Bill Belon is also alive.

But there are yet OTHERS who have died - and they won't be the last, unfortunately. At some point, someone from Citadelphia will surely be talking about you and I in the past tense.

Speaking of which, my boss is Covid-19, which means I got some pretty heavy exposure over the last two weeks, most likely. My test is tomorrow.


Wed Dec 30 2020 17:28:36 MST from Otto Roboto

Larry Reznick is dead?  I must have missed that.  When did that happen?

Okay, you have used my real name, but only in talking about other things.  Unless I missed a specific message where you directly named me.  And if that happened, then I am sorry I missed it and have mislead you.  Now I need to figure out h9w to go back and read all the messages to see if you did guess directly and I overlooked it.

 

Tue Dec 29 2020 04:34:28 PM MST from ParanoidDelusions

I actually feel further away from the answer now than at the start. I can't think of any other regulars I haven't named off already. Bill Belon, Larry Reznick, the others are dead. You can't be Gerhard - or I only knew them by online pseudonyms. Also, there aren't any left. 

It is interesting seeing you in those documents. 

Interesting thing about those docs. They have a create date of 2010. That must have been when I grabbed them. And they're not Yoyodyne archives - they're DDBBS archives. 

I did a search for that, thinking there might be more out there and it might give me clues - but wherever I grabbed them appears to be long gone. 

 

Tue Dec 29 2020 11:38:44 MST from Otto Roboto

Oh, I have plenty of 5.25 drives, including the one that was on the BBS computer.  The hard part is going to be getting anything of the hard drive at all.  You are correct that Hotel was not up at the end, I think it was due to hardware failure.  Vince ran DDBBS-II on TRS-80 Model II hardware after he transposed it from Jerry's Heath hardware.  I also do not remember what Brent's BBS was called, it might have been Novucitivis or something similar.

 

So, do you have it nailed down as to who I am yet?  There should be plenty of clues given in the last dozen messages...

 


 



 



[#] Wed Dec 30 2020 18:46:44 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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Ok. Well, this should be enough to get me on the right track. Give me a while after dinner to do some sleuthing. :)

 

Wed Dec 30 2020 18:14:59 MST from Otto Roboto

Okay, just went back and read thru all the messages in the 3 or 4 rooms that this conversation is spread thru, and although you have used my real name in passing, you have not directly assigned it to me.

In fact, you outright dismissed it as not a viable option at one point.  And these are a few of the clues that you have missed.  So, although you think you have guess all the people who used real names, you may have mentioned them, but not "guessed" them.  

 

lol...

 

Sorry if I am being to strict on the "Guessing" part...  hehehe



 



[#] Wed Dec 30 2020 20:05:46 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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Any luck with these? I'd like to turn this into a sort of only history vault of Sacramento Citadelphia. I didn't have as much as I remembered - but what I had was an interesting insight to how far ahead of the curve we were, how much influence we had on the later development of the culture and attitudes of the Internet - how we were a big part of the genesis of social media.

grep -iRl "Pagan Flames" ./ is the tool that did it for me.

But you could put just about anything in there. "Jerry Moore" "MetallicA" or "DDBBS". If it is mentioned in the file, it'll find it.

 

Fri Nov 20 2020 22:59:07 MST from Otto Roboto

I used to have a bunch of those kind of files around here.  I have not looked for them in a while, so no idea where they could be and with 80 TB have data (yes I am a digital hoarder too) on my main workstation, it would be a job to try and find them.  But, that being said, I will try and take a quick peak and see what I can dig up.



 



[#] Wed Dec 30 2020 21:14:16 MST from ParanoidDelusions

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So, the only names I can find that I dismissed are Pagan Flames, Gerhard - and I haven't guessed Brent, but the clues you have given all dismiss Brent.

The only other name I think I haven't actually guessed is Jim Earl, and I feel like I've dismissed. No "B" in that anywhere...

Are you Jim Earl? Actually, based on all the clues, and all the misses - I guess that is the only one that is *left*. I do remember sitting and having some conversations with Jim Earl at some MUPT - maybe the one across from the place where the Byte Brokers opened their second store at Howe About Arden...


 

Wed Dec 30 2020 18:46:44 MST from ParanoidDelusions

Ok. Well, this should be enough to get me on the right track. Give me a while after dinner to do some sleuthing. :)

 

Wed Dec 30 2020 18:14:59 MST from Otto Roboto

Okay, just went back and read thru all the messages in the 3 or 4 rooms that this conversation is spread thru, and although you have used my real name in passing, you have not directly assigned it to me.

In fact, you outright dismissed it as not a viable option at one point.  And these are a few of the clues that you have missed.  So, although you think you have guess all the people who used real names, you may have mentioned them, but not "guessed" them.  

 

lol...

 

Sorry if I am being to strict on the "Guessing" part...  hehehe